proof that I’m a die-hard optimist
December 1, 2007 by leavingeden
I miss my Christian friends, so let’s just get over ourselves.
One of the best friends I’ve ever had was an agnostic while I was a Christian. I was on fire for God in those days, and we talked about our respective beliefs often and told each other all about our spiritual lives. We eventually moved far away from each other and grew apart because of that distance, but I’ve always held that as a standard for friendships, especially friendships that cross boundaries in religion or other differences. That friend supported and encouraged my spiritual development as a Christian even though he didn’t believe in God, because it was important to me. If it were not for that friendship, I wouldn’t know such friendships were possible.
Because of that friendship, I’ve always treasured relationships with people who have vitally different beliefs. I consider it a privilege and a joy to try to understand someone whose beliefs are difficult for me to understand. I love the idea of sharing my thoughts with someone who will value them and help me work through them not because they agree with me, but because those things are important to me.
So, to my Christian friends: just because I don’t believe in God, doesn’t mean you can’t talk about anything Christian with me (as long as it’s about you, and not about trying to convince me). I truly believe that people who have different beliefs can help each other in their spiritual development. I want my Christian friends to be part of my life as an atheist, if they can accept that I am an atheist (I realize that’s a big “if”). I want to be a part of their lives as Christians. Atheism is important to me, and Christianity is important to you. If we are important to each other, we should be able to accept that. We should be able to share those parts of our lives with each other without attacking each other, without telling each other we’re wrong.
I recognize the difference here: I don’t think Christianity harms anybody who chooses to follow it (except in its most extreme fundy versions, but let’s assume the best). Many Christians, however, do think that being an atheist “hurts” me in some way. If you believe that, my saying otherwise probably won’t convince you. But I’m an optimist, so let’s just give it a try: I am happy as an atheist. My moral standards haven’t changed. Atheism hasn’t made me a worse person, and I’m satisfied that it’s the right thing for me. If you can accept that, if we can just get over the fact that you believe in God and I don’t without arguing about it, I’d be happy to tell you about my spiritual life as an atheist. And I’d be happy to listen to what God is doing in your life.
Atheism hasn’t made me a worse person, and I’m satisfied that it’s the right thing for me. If you can accept that
I’m not sure this is a realistic bar to shoot for…I don’t see how you will get (some) Christians to accept atheism is ‘right’ for anyone. Asking them to accept that is asking them to greatly change their belief system.
I think it’s reasonable to say “I know you’re not happy about me being an atheist but can we see if we can be friends anyway?”
Also, expecting Christians to want to hear about your life as a spiritual atheist might not work either, because they just can’t go there emotionally. I find I have to avoid certain subjects with some Christians because it’s just too hard for them to go there.
If I let them talk about their spiritual lives it makes them comfortable and it’s almost like they forget I’m not a Christian anymore if I listen affirmingly - so I just let it go and listen *sigh*…I want my relationships to work…
It’s just not an even playing field. You have a tolerance for hearing about their life that they have been trained not to have for hearing about yours
You might disagree with aspects of their life but you aren’t being twisted in emotional knots inside about them being eternallly tortured or causing God great grief.
I like the degree of honesty this blog usually exhibits (excepting the anonymity, which strikes me as disingenuous), and it is usually well written. However, the illogic of this entry does it no credit. Both you and your Christian friends believe there is a truth about reality, although you disagree with one another about what that truth is. (Isn’t why this blog even exists?) More to the point, the Christian’s version of reality includes the belief that atheists are not just mildly mistaken, but are in mortal danger.
It’s all very well to ruminate about the benefits of chatting casually with people of vitally different beliefs from your own, and how mutually valuable that is. But if a friend of yours were happily explaining how he had finally been thrilled to come to the realization that he was actually a poached egg, your response would not likely be one of nods and grins–you would be genuinely concerned for his welfare. If his response then was one of irritation for your over-concern with his (to you) obviously false and probably dangerous version of reality, it is unlikely the two of you will be able to have many of those pleasant conversations about your opposing views. You will either have to avoid discussing the drastic differences in your views (”it’s hard for them to go there,” says Helen above), or you will have to avoid each other (transfer to a different environment?), or you will discuss the views and rub each other the wrong way. I do not think a true friend would support and encourage the development of the poached egg theory.
You may not like what your Christian friends think about your self-declared religious status, but it would hardly be consistent within the Christian belief system for them to ignore your (to them) drastically incorrect and dangerous new view of “reality,” at least if they care about you at all. Discussing matters of deep difference on the way the cosmos is structured is on an entirely different plane from discussing whether or not you each like a certain style of music, or what is the best kind of pie, or whether “Family Guy” is funny or stupid. I could be friends with you and not worry about our differing opinions on those matters any more than as a passing interest, but if you tell me you have decided you are an egg, I would think you’re really, really wrong on a basic level about the truths of the universe–perhaps dangerously so–and I would not be able to keep still about that very easily if I really were your friend.
I think what the first two posts are missing is this: love. Love your neighbor. In the words of Mother Teresa:
“There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as EQUAL before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our EXAMPLE to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers.”
Why? Because they were loved as equals by people who wanted them to be the best that they could be. Whether they were Christian was moot.
It may seem loving to try to convince someone of your beliefs, but how many times have you been in a discussion by someone who thought they had the world figured out and that it was their job to convince you of something–feel loved or offended? Now, what about someone who was simply willing to listen and try to help you in what you were dealing with at that moment. To have compassion. That’s love.
The fact that we want to have mutual respect and exchange of views with friends or family who are Christians is important, but I think Vince has raised a very crucial point that shouldn’t be overlooked. Those of us who have left Christianity because of philosophical reasons — and aren’t just mad at God for something, which of course implies that he still exists very powerfully for them — have done so because the hard-won truth, as we believe and experience it, is important enough for us to make really difficult personal sacrifices to live authentically.
Some people who choose to be Christian make similar personal sacrifices for similar reasons. The truth, as they now believe and experience it, is also that important. If they really could listen and accept your atheism as OK, they would not really, by definition, be Christians.
On the other hand, I think what you’re actually looking for isn’t acceptance of your views by Christians, anymore than you could accept theirs (or else you’d still be one) — but acceptance of your self as a seeker after truth — real, actual truth, that both you and your Christian friends believe passionately exists and is important enough to change your life for.
I have a Christian friend like this, and it’s both frustrating and rewarding to interact with his ideas and let them help challenge and shape and refine my own. I don’t always like it, a lot of times I don’t at all actually, but it ends up being rewarding in the long run.