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	<title>Comments on: Tastes like the real thing</title>
	<atom:link href="http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/</link>
	<description>becoming an atheist at a christian college</description>
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		<title>By: Sarah H.</title>
		<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-330</guid>
		<description>I grew up completely inundated with Christianity, and before coming to college I was barely aware there were alternatives to Christianity.  I double-majored in Religious Studies and Philosophy, and halfway through my freshman year, I struggled through agnosticism and into atheism.

Fortunately I hadn&#039;t enrolled in a Christian college, but I do understand why you might choose to keep the facade instead of &quot;being yourself&quot; publicly.

It took me a few years to &quot;come out&quot; as an atheist to my immediate family, and it makes me feel a bit sad (and a bit squeamish) to know that they&#039;re probably praying fervently for my salvation.  I can&#039;t talk to them about the reasons behind my change in beliefs - they are so firmly entrenched in the doctrine they&#039;ve swallowed for years to even consider my position.

Facing the kind of judgment that comes with being an atheist (recent surveys have shown that the American public would sooner elect a Muslim or a homosexual candidate to office than an atheist) isn&#039;t easy to deal with.  Being subjected to harsh questioning by those who, very often, aren&#039;t going to take the answers seriously is something I had to deal with from the Christians at my school.

I know I could never tell my extended family about my beliefs - it would break their hearts (possibly literally in the case of my grandparents) and I can&#039;t think of a single positive result it could produce for me or for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up completely inundated with Christianity, and before coming to college I was barely aware there were alternatives to Christianity.  I double-majored in Religious Studies and Philosophy, and halfway through my freshman year, I struggled through agnosticism and into atheism.</p>
<p>Fortunately I hadn&#8217;t enrolled in a Christian college, but I do understand why you might choose to keep the facade instead of &#8220;being yourself&#8221; publicly.</p>
<p>It took me a few years to &#8220;come out&#8221; as an atheist to my immediate family, and it makes me feel a bit sad (and a bit squeamish) to know that they&#8217;re probably praying fervently for my salvation.  I can&#8217;t talk to them about the reasons behind my change in beliefs &#8211; they are so firmly entrenched in the doctrine they&#8217;ve swallowed for years to even consider my position.</p>
<p>Facing the kind of judgment that comes with being an atheist (recent surveys have shown that the American public would sooner elect a Muslim or a homosexual candidate to office than an atheist) isn&#8217;t easy to deal with.  Being subjected to harsh questioning by those who, very often, aren&#8217;t going to take the answers seriously is something I had to deal with from the Christians at my school.</p>
<p>I know I could never tell my extended family about my beliefs &#8211; it would break their hearts (possibly literally in the case of my grandparents) and I can&#8217;t think of a single positive result it could produce for me or for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-315</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-315</guid>
		<description>Yes, it&#039;s up to him - what I am saying is that his choice not to let anyone in on it makes no sense to me. 

I don&#039;t want any relationships with people who make no sense to me but who I am supposed to think of as good and perfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it&#8217;s up to him &#8211; what I am saying is that his choice not to let anyone in on it makes no sense to me. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want any relationships with people who make no sense to me but who I am supposed to think of as good and perfect.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Krahn</title>
		<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-313</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Krahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-313</guid>
		<description>No, obviously he&#039;s not, but whether or not he lets me in on his knowledge of your sincerity is up to him.

Is there a deeper point to the question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, obviously he&#8217;s not, but whether or not he lets me in on his knowledge of your sincerity is up to him.</p>
<p>Is there a deeper point to the question?</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-312</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-312</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;You’re not being blatant, you’re being deceptive.&lt;/em&gt;

Yes, but God isn&#039;t fooled, is he? Or is he?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>You’re not being blatant, you’re being deceptive.</em></p>
<p>Yes, but God isn&#8217;t fooled, is he? Or is he?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Krahn</title>
		<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-309</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Krahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-309</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, sleuthing is not one of the spiritual gifts listed in scripture.

I think what you&#039;re getting at is that nobody got close enough to you to REALLY get to know you.  Spiritual sleuthing aside, if I was to join an atheist dialog, say I&#039;m an atheist, act as an atheist, and speak as an atheist, you would have to paranoid to call me out as a faker.

There is no magic spirit needed to &quot;sniff out a blatant atheist&quot; in anyone&#039;s midst.  You&#039;re not being blatant, you&#039;re being deceptive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, sleuthing is not one of the spiritual gifts listed in scripture.</p>
<p>I think what you&#8217;re getting at is that nobody got close enough to you to REALLY get to know you.  Spiritual sleuthing aside, if I was to join an atheist dialog, say I&#8217;m an atheist, act as an atheist, and speak as an atheist, you would have to paranoid to call me out as a faker.</p>
<p>There is no magic spirit needed to &#8220;sniff out a blatant atheist&#8221; in anyone&#8217;s midst.  You&#8217;re not being blatant, you&#8217;re being deceptive.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 01:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-304</guid>
		<description>The fact that the Holy Spirit didn&#039;t &#039;out&#039; me led me to further doubt that such a person existed.

If I had been outed that way I probably would have had serious second thoughts about my suspicion that the Holy Spirit didn&#039;t exist. Since I wasn&#039;t, it had the opposite effect.

I still don&#039;t understand why God tells Christians so many other things (according to them) but he doesn&#039;t tell them who is faking.

And yes, it&#039;s hard to fake - it&#039;s not at all easy. But if you&#039;re not 100% sure it seems precipitous to jump ship - I expect most people who leave the Christian faith have a transition time when they are still acting the part but have growing doubts on the inside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that the Holy Spirit didn&#8217;t &#8216;out&#8217; me led me to further doubt that such a person existed.</p>
<p>If I had been outed that way I probably would have had serious second thoughts about my suspicion that the Holy Spirit didn&#8217;t exist. Since I wasn&#8217;t, it had the opposite effect.</p>
<p>I still don&#8217;t understand why God tells Christians so many other things (according to them) but he doesn&#8217;t tell them who is faking.</p>
<p>And yes, it&#8217;s hard to fake &#8211; it&#8217;s not at all easy. But if you&#8217;re not 100% sure it seems precipitous to jump ship &#8211; I expect most people who leave the Christian faith have a transition time when they are still acting the part but have growing doubts on the inside.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-301</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Is it really fair to criticize people for not figuring out you’re an atheist?&lt;/i&gt;

Not if you&#039;re convincing and they are just ordinary human beings. But Christians - particularly the fundamentalists I was associated with - claim to have supernatural guidance from the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit that gives them extra special powers of discernment and wisdom.

At least that&#039;s what the bible promises them will happen. But if that magical spirit cannot even sniff out a blatant atheist in their midst, I&#039;m not too impressed with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Is it really fair to criticize people for not figuring out you’re an atheist?</i></p>
<p>Not if you&#8217;re convincing and they are just ordinary human beings. But Christians &#8211; particularly the fundamentalists I was associated with &#8211; claim to have supernatural guidance from the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit that gives them extra special powers of discernment and wisdom.</p>
<p>At least that&#8217;s what the bible promises them will happen. But if that magical spirit cannot even sniff out a blatant atheist in their midst, I&#8217;m not too impressed with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Leftthebox</title>
		<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>Leftthebox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-299</guid>
		<description>I agree Michael . . . why pretend?  If you are that unhappy at the college of your choice, leave.  Stop pretending.  Take off your mask, leave the place that makes you so unhappy and get on with life.  Why do you continue to write papers from a &quot;Christian&quot; perspective?  Stop.  Be real and stop expecting others to figure out where you stand.  Every belief system has a point of faith . . . even the atheist.  Make your choice and get on with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Michael . . . why pretend?  If you are that unhappy at the college of your choice, leave.  Stop pretending.  Take off your mask, leave the place that makes you so unhappy and get on with life.  Why do you continue to write papers from a &#8220;Christian&#8221; perspective?  Stop.  Be real and stop expecting others to figure out where you stand.  Every belief system has a point of faith . . . even the atheist.  Make your choice and get on with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Krahn</title>
		<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Krahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-298</guid>
		<description>This a very strange conversation - not &#039;bad&#039; strange, maybe peculiar is a better word.

As someone who has been reading and &lt;a href=&quot;http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/richard-dawkins/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;writing about atheism&lt;/a&gt; during the last year and also as someone who just finished a semester of Bible college, I can&#039;t help but wonder: how are they supposed to know you are an atheist?  

From what I gather, you are pretending to be Christians and writing your papers from the Christian perspective while attending a Christian college.  Is it really fair to criticize people for not figuring out you&#039;re an atheist?

I do sympathize with every one of you for fearing to announce yourselves as atheists.  No doubt people do react harshly.  In my own experience, reading Dawkins and writing about it on my blog has led me to a number of really neat relationships with atheists.   It has helped me understand the atheist perspective better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This a very strange conversation &#8211; not &#8216;bad&#8217; strange, maybe peculiar is a better word.</p>
<p>As someone who has been reading and <a href="http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/richard-dawkins/" rel="nofollow">writing about atheism</a> during the last year and also as someone who just finished a semester of Bible college, I can&#8217;t help but wonder: how are they supposed to know you are an atheist?  </p>
<p>From what I gather, you are pretending to be Christians and writing your papers from the Christian perspective while attending a Christian college.  Is it really fair to criticize people for not figuring out you&#8217;re an atheist?</p>
<p>I do sympathize with every one of you for fearing to announce yourselves as atheists.  No doubt people do react harshly.  In my own experience, reading Dawkins and writing about it on my blog has led me to a number of really neat relationships with atheists.   It has helped me understand the atheist perspective better.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Redford</title>
		<link>http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Redford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leavingeden.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/tastes-like-the-real-thing/#comment-297</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This again leads me to a question I often ask of believers: “Where’s the holy spirit?”&lt;/i&gt;

My thoughts exactly during my own &quot;undercover&quot; work. No one had the slightest idea that I was an atheist and I was there as an atheist for 2 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This again leads me to a question I often ask of believers: “Where’s the holy spirit?”</i></p>
<p>My thoughts exactly during my own &#8220;undercover&#8221; work. No one had the slightest idea that I was an atheist and I was there as an atheist for 2 years.</p>
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